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	<title>Comments on: Calling Time On The Use Of Secret Evidence In The UK</title>
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	<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/</link>
	<description>Investigative journalist, author, filmmaker and Guantanamo expert</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:40:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: A Good Day For Justice: British Supreme Court Bans Use Of Secret Evidence By Intelligence Services - OpEd</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-81762</link>
		<dc:creator>A Good Day For Justice: British Supreme Court Bans Use Of Secret Evidence By Intelligence Services - OpEd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2011 03:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-81762</guid>
		<description>[...] articles — see, for example, Britain’s Guantánamo: Calling For An End To Secret Evidence, Calling Time On The Use Of Secret Evidence In The UK, Control Orders: Solicitors’ Evidence before the Joint Committee on Human Rights, February 3, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] articles — see, for example, Britain’s Guantánamo: Calling For An End To Secret Evidence, Calling Time On The Use Of Secret Evidence In The UK, Control Orders: Solicitors’ Evidence before the Joint Committee on Human Rights, February 3, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: New letter to William Hague, asking him to secure the return from Guantánamo of Shaker Aamer &#171; freedetainees.org</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-58671</link>
		<dc:creator>New letter to William Hague, asking him to secure the return from Guantánamo of Shaker Aamer &#171; freedetainees.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 May 2010 16:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-58671</guid>
		<description>[...] and an updated version of a related letter to MPs (which also calls for action on the use of secret evidence and control orders in the UK) will be handed out at future screenings of the new documentary film, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and an updated version of a related letter to MPs (which also calls for action on the use of secret evidence and control orders in the UK) will be handed out at future screenings of the new documentary film, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fahad Hashmi And Terrorist Hysteria In US Courts &#124; FlipTrends-Following the Hottest Google Trends</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-58608</link>
		<dc:creator>Fahad Hashmi And Terrorist Hysteria In US Courts &#124; FlipTrends-Following the Hottest Google Trends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 May 2010 16:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-58608</guid>
		<description>[...] prisoner in Belmarsh prison (where other foreign terror suspects are held, pending deportation, on the basis of secret evidence) until March 2007, when the High Court approved his extradition. Since his arrival in the US, he [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] prisoner in Belmarsh prison (where other foreign terror suspects are held, pending deportation, on the basis of secret evidence) until March 2007, when the High Court approved his extradition. Since his arrival in the US, he [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-53144</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-53144</guid>
		<description>Detainee  &#039;U&#039; (an Algerian, D.O.B 8 February 1963) has been continuously in custody since March 2001.

In a February 2007 case hearing (http://tinyurl.com/yegllmj) U was described as having been in a &quot;senior position in Mujahedin training camp in Afghanistan&quot; with &quot;Direct links to UBL (Usama Bin Laden) and other senior AQ (Al Qaeda) figures.&quot;  He was also &quot;Involved in supporting terrorists including those involved in the planned attack on the Strasbourg Christmas Market in 2000&quot;.  Most of the testimony against &#039;U&#039; stems from Ahmed Ressam, (he of the alleged &#039;Los Angeles Airport plot&#039; of 2000).  [Whenever these 2 ‘plots’ (Strasbourg Market &amp; Los Angeles Airport) referred to, I smell a rat].

The same case notes state that &quot;there is clear and credible evidence that, between March 2000 and February 2001, a group of three Algerians, led by him [&#039;U&#039;], purchased £230,000 worth of communication equipment from a UK company &#039;Integrated Communications Solutions Ltd.&#039;, which is run by &#039;boss&#039; Stuart Castell.  Further detail of this £230K purchase is provided in paragraph 8 of the October 2003 SIAC judgement concerning Appellant &#039;B&#039; (http://tinyurl.com/y9af8kj).  The equipment is described as being &quot;procured for use by extremists in Chechnya and by the GSPC in Algeria.&quot;  The hearing notes also state (in paragraph 9) that [Appellant] B’s &quot;activities were directed to supporting the GSPC and the Ibn Khattab faction in Chechnya&quot;.

From the SIAC judgement SSHD v AJOUAOU and A, B, C and D, of 29th October 2003 (http://tinyurl.com/yhfas89) paragraph 214 states that  Ibn Khattab was &quot;receiving American backing&#039;.

Somewhere therein all these (open &amp; closed) judgements lies the corollary, that these (Algerian) persons were involved (as uninitiated/unbeknown but encouraged patsies?) in the precursory activities upon which the subsequent War on/of Terror is based.

The fact that the prosecutors cannot lay bare their cases is telling, ‘national security’ excuses aside.

Thanks for your continued investigations &amp; research, Andy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Detainee  &#8216;U&#8217; (an Algerian, D.O.B 8 February 1963) has been continuously in custody since March 2001.</p>
<p>In a February 2007 case hearing (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/yegllmj" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/tinyurl.com/yegllmj?referer=');">http://tinyurl.com/yegllmj</a>) U was described as having been in a &#8220;senior position in Mujahedin training camp in Afghanistan&#8221; with &#8220;Direct links to UBL (Usama Bin Laden) and other senior AQ (Al Qaeda) figures.&#8221;  He was also &#8220;Involved in supporting terrorists including those involved in the planned attack on the Strasbourg Christmas Market in 2000&#8243;.  Most of the testimony against &#8216;U&#8217; stems from Ahmed Ressam, (he of the alleged &#8216;Los Angeles Airport plot&#8217; of 2000).  [Whenever these 2 ‘plots’ (Strasbourg Market &amp; Los Angeles Airport) referred to, I smell a rat].</p>
<p>The same case notes state that &#8220;there is clear and credible evidence that, between March 2000 and February 2001, a group of three Algerians, led by him ['U'], purchased £230,000 worth of communication equipment from a UK company &#8216;Integrated Communications Solutions Ltd.&#8217;, which is run by &#8216;boss&#8217; Stuart Castell.  Further detail of this £230K purchase is provided in paragraph 8 of the October 2003 SIAC judgement concerning Appellant &#8216;B&#8217; (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/y9af8kj" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/tinyurl.com/y9af8kj?referer=');">http://tinyurl.com/y9af8kj</a>).  The equipment is described as being &#8220;procured for use by extremists in Chechnya and by the GSPC in Algeria.&#8221;  The hearing notes also state (in paragraph 9) that [Appellant] B’s &#8220;activities were directed to supporting the GSPC and the Ibn Khattab faction in Chechnya&#8221;.</p>
<p>From the SIAC judgement SSHD v AJOUAOU and A, B, C and D, of 29th October 2003 (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/yhfas89" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/tinyurl.com/yhfas89?referer=');">http://tinyurl.com/yhfas89</a>) paragraph 214 states that  Ibn Khattab was &#8220;receiving American backing&#8217;.</p>
<p>Somewhere therein all these (open &amp; closed) judgements lies the corollary, that these (Algerian) persons were involved (as uninitiated/unbeknown but encouraged patsies?) in the precursory activities upon which the subsequent War on/of Terror is based.</p>
<p>The fact that the prosecutors cannot lay bare their cases is telling, ‘national security’ excuses aside.</p>
<p>Thanks for your continued investigations &amp; research, Andy.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Grozier</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-52781</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Grozier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 18:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-52781</guid>
		<description>Brian - has it ever occurred to you that the &quot;secret evidence&quot; simply doesn&#039;t exist, and that the reason the Home Office doesn&#039;t want to have to &quot;reveal&quot; it is that there is nothing to reveal, other than the fact that these incarcerations are arbitrary and are based primarily on the HO&#039;s need to be seen to be &quot;doing something&quot;, just as it was in the case of the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four?

Having seen some of this secret &quot;evidence&quot; that the HO very graciously agreed to reveal at one of the SIAC hearings back in February, I can tell you that if the rest is anything like that (it was simply a list of the locations of railway stations and bus routes!) then it is not really evidence at all.

The other important point is that I am not sure you appreciate just how much the SIAC system institutionalises injustice. You say that &quot;the SIAC procedures are designed to enable sensitive evidence to be withheld from the suspect while ensuring that his interests can be protected as far as possible by the special advocate who can challenge the closed evidence on his behalf&quot;. But the Special Advocate can&#039;t challenge the secret evidence, because he/she is sworn to secrecy! This is something even Afua Hirsch in the Guardian seems to have missed in her excellent article a few weeks ago. 

This is an important point when the arguments put forward by the HO depend on anonymous and inaccurate statements such as the one that Jack mentions in his article. How could the Special Advocate check things like the HO&#039;s attempt to weave an &quot;escape plot&quot; out of a few old maps - the subject of one of which has been either accidentally or deliberately mistyped - when he/she is not allowed to reveal anything about the &quot;evidence&quot; to anyone, not even the appellant&#039;s lawyer?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian &#8211; has it ever occurred to you that the &#8220;secret evidence&#8221; simply doesn&#8217;t exist, and that the reason the Home Office doesn&#8217;t want to have to &#8220;reveal&#8221; it is that there is nothing to reveal, other than the fact that these incarcerations are arbitrary and are based primarily on the HO&#8217;s need to be seen to be &#8220;doing something&#8221;, just as it was in the case of the Birmingham Six and the Guildford Four?</p>
<p>Having seen some of this secret &#8220;evidence&#8221; that the HO very graciously agreed to reveal at one of the SIAC hearings back in February, I can tell you that if the rest is anything like that (it was simply a list of the locations of railway stations and bus routes!) then it is not really evidence at all.</p>
<p>The other important point is that I am not sure you appreciate just how much the SIAC system institutionalises injustice. You say that &#8220;the SIAC procedures are designed to enable sensitive evidence to be withheld from the suspect while ensuring that his interests can be protected as far as possible by the special advocate who can challenge the closed evidence on his behalf&#8221;. But the Special Advocate can&#8217;t challenge the secret evidence, because he/she is sworn to secrecy! This is something even Afua Hirsch in the Guardian seems to have missed in her excellent article a few weeks ago. </p>
<p>This is an important point when the arguments put forward by the HO depend on anonymous and inaccurate statements such as the one that Jack mentions in his article. How could the Special Advocate check things like the HO&#8217;s attempt to weave an &#8220;escape plot&#8221; out of a few old maps &#8211; the subject of one of which has been either accidentally or deliberately mistyped &#8211; when he/she is not allowed to reveal anything about the &#8220;evidence&#8221; to anyone, not even the appellant&#8217;s lawyer?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-52585</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 22:36:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-52585</guid>
		<description>Hi Brian,
Good to hear from you. That’s a very well thought out response, deserving of a thoughtful and considered response, which I hope to provide. 

My overriding concern, which comes from having familiarized myself for many years with the intelligence-gathering of the US agencies, from having observed the cooperation between agencies of different countries (the case of Binyam Mohamed comes most immediately to mind, although there are, of course, many others), and also -- more worryingly -- from having learned how countries not only share evidence but also draw on intelligence provided by countries with distinctly dubious human rights records, is that this information does not just involve domestic informers, who may, as you say, need protecting, but who may also, in some cases, not necessarily be reliable just because they are informers. 

Beyond this (and that last point of mine is a major concern, I think) is the suspicion -- or in some cases, the knowledge -- that some of these sensitive sources are prisoners in other countries, who may have been tortured and have provided false information, and, over the last eight years, may have been prisoners held by the CIA or the US military, in Guantanamo or in secret prisons, who have also produced false information. It is for this reason, predominantly, that I believe the supposed evidence needs to be able to be tested objectively, and not because of the domestic aspects of the cases, where, I think, the problems could largely be overcome with the tactics of disguise that you discuss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Brian,<br />
Good to hear from you. That’s a very well thought out response, deserving of a thoughtful and considered response, which I hope to provide. </p>
<p>My overriding concern, which comes from having familiarized myself for many years with the intelligence-gathering of the US agencies, from having observed the cooperation between agencies of different countries (the case of Binyam Mohamed comes most immediately to mind, although there are, of course, many others), and also &#8212; more worryingly &#8212; from having learned how countries not only share evidence but also draw on intelligence provided by countries with distinctly dubious human rights records, is that this information does not just involve domestic informers, who may, as you say, need protecting, but who may also, in some cases, not necessarily be reliable just because they are informers. </p>
<p>Beyond this (and that last point of mine is a major concern, I think) is the suspicion &#8212; or in some cases, the knowledge &#8212; that some of these sensitive sources are prisoners in other countries, who may have been tortured and have provided false information, and, over the last eight years, may have been prisoners held by the CIA or the US military, in Guantanamo or in secret prisons, who have also produced false information. It is for this reason, predominantly, that I believe the supposed evidence needs to be able to be tested objectively, and not because of the domestic aspects of the cases, where, I think, the problems could largely be overcome with the tactics of disguise that you discuss.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Barder</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/12/10/calling-time-on-the-use-of-secret-evidence-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-52584</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Barder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 21:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=6352#comment-52584</guid>
		<description>I entirely agree that the present situation is deeply unsatisfactory and probably entails serious injustice for a number of people.  But one of the principal ways for the security services to detect and pre-empt terrorist activity must, as a matter of common sense, be to get information from secret informers who, for whatever reason, run grave personal risks by passing on information about what is going on in their own communities, which may be small, tight groups where everyone knows everyone else.  If information supplied by informers is used in open court as evidence, and made available to the suspect and his lawyers, it will often -- perhaps usually -- be possible for the suspect, his lawyers or his friends to be able to work out from the nature of the information who it was that supplied it to the police, MI5 or whoever.  The consequences for the informer could thus be extremely grave.  For example, he might be physically attacked as a traitor; his family could be in danger;  he would probably have to move, which would probably mean losing his job;  and so forth.  Even worse in some ways:  once a secret informer had lost his cover through being identified by his information being revealed in open court, others throughout Britain who might otherwise consider giving vital information to the authorities would be bound to change their minds:  the penalties of exposure if the information they were providing became known to those involved in terrorist planning would be too severe.  Thus the security forces would lose their primary tool for detecting and foiling terrorist activity.  

To a limited extent this can be resolved by dressing up the informer&#039;s evidence and deliberately distorting it in such a way as to disguise its source.  Witnesses&#039; voices can be disguised and they can testify behind screens or by video-link from another place. Sometimes the informer&#039;s information can be corroborated by other means and the corroborative evidence disclosed safely to the suspect.  But often that won&#039;t be possible:  even the search for corroboration may compromise the original informer&#039;s safety.  In some cases the informer may be the only person who has had access to the vital information which he has passed on to the authorities.  In such situations there may be no way to protect him if his information has to be disclosed to the suspect and his lawyers.  In such a case, what if the information he has supplied constitutes clear evidence that the suspect has indeed been planning a terrorist attack?  The security authorities dare not allow the evidence to be disclosed to the suspect because it would compromise the informer and put him in danger, as well as deterring anyone else from giving secret information in future cases.  Yet simply to drop the case against the suspect and set him free puts society in danger:  it&#039;s not possible to keep more than a few such people under 24-hour surveillance indefinitely.  Sooner or later they can disappear into the woodwork.

I don&#039;t claim to know the answer to this problem.  I agree that it&#039;s far better for suspects to be charged and tried in the ordinary criminal courts than for their appeals to be heard in SIAC with its provision for closed and hearsay evidence and special advocates.  But the problem of disclosing informers&#039; evidence to the suspect and others in an ordinary court is then even greater:  are the jury all to be security-cleared, as well as the judge and the counsel and others before the sensitive evidence is heard?  And there&#039;s still the central problem of disclosure to the suspect (or the accused) of information that will lead him back to the identity of the informer.

Similar (but to my mind much lesser) problems can arise where the main evidence against a suspect has been obtained by tapping a third party&#039;s telephone.  If that intercept evidence is revealed to the suspect, the third party will soon know that his phone has been tapped -- and this may reveal to a whole terrorist group that their activities are known to the authorities, causing them to change their plans, stop using their telephones, and so forth.  

It&#039;s fine to reassert the principle that an accused person has the absolute right to know the evidence against him and to be able to challenge it in court.  But how does one reconcile that principle with the equally absolute need to protect the identity of informers?  I simply don&#039;t know.  I wonder if anyone else does, either.  The SIAC procedures are designed to enable sensitive evidence to be withheld from the suspect while ensuring that his interests can be protected as far as possible by the special advocate who can challenge the closed evidence on his behalf.  The SIAC judges themselves have to be satisfied that the evidence in question really does need to be &#039;closed&#039;, i.e. withheld from the suspect.  It&#039;s not satisfactory.  But what alternative is better?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I entirely agree that the present situation is deeply unsatisfactory and probably entails serious injustice for a number of people.  But one of the principal ways for the security services to detect and pre-empt terrorist activity must, as a matter of common sense, be to get information from secret informers who, for whatever reason, run grave personal risks by passing on information about what is going on in their own communities, which may be small, tight groups where everyone knows everyone else.  If information supplied by informers is used in open court as evidence, and made available to the suspect and his lawyers, it will often &#8212; perhaps usually &#8212; be possible for the suspect, his lawyers or his friends to be able to work out from the nature of the information who it was that supplied it to the police, MI5 or whoever.  The consequences for the informer could thus be extremely grave.  For example, he might be physically attacked as a traitor; his family could be in danger;  he would probably have to move, which would probably mean losing his job;  and so forth.  Even worse in some ways:  once a secret informer had lost his cover through being identified by his information being revealed in open court, others throughout Britain who might otherwise consider giving vital information to the authorities would be bound to change their minds:  the penalties of exposure if the information they were providing became known to those involved in terrorist planning would be too severe.  Thus the security forces would lose their primary tool for detecting and foiling terrorist activity.  </p>
<p>To a limited extent this can be resolved by dressing up the informer&#8217;s evidence and deliberately distorting it in such a way as to disguise its source.  Witnesses&#8217; voices can be disguised and they can testify behind screens or by video-link from another place. Sometimes the informer&#8217;s information can be corroborated by other means and the corroborative evidence disclosed safely to the suspect.  But often that won&#8217;t be possible:  even the search for corroboration may compromise the original informer&#8217;s safety.  In some cases the informer may be the only person who has had access to the vital information which he has passed on to the authorities.  In such situations there may be no way to protect him if his information has to be disclosed to the suspect and his lawyers.  In such a case, what if the information he has supplied constitutes clear evidence that the suspect has indeed been planning a terrorist attack?  The security authorities dare not allow the evidence to be disclosed to the suspect because it would compromise the informer and put him in danger, as well as deterring anyone else from giving secret information in future cases.  Yet simply to drop the case against the suspect and set him free puts society in danger:  it&#8217;s not possible to keep more than a few such people under 24-hour surveillance indefinitely.  Sooner or later they can disappear into the woodwork.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t claim to know the answer to this problem.  I agree that it&#8217;s far better for suspects to be charged and tried in the ordinary criminal courts than for their appeals to be heard in SIAC with its provision for closed and hearsay evidence and special advocates.  But the problem of disclosing informers&#8217; evidence to the suspect and others in an ordinary court is then even greater:  are the jury all to be security-cleared, as well as the judge and the counsel and others before the sensitive evidence is heard?  And there&#8217;s still the central problem of disclosure to the suspect (or the accused) of information that will lead him back to the identity of the informer.</p>
<p>Similar (but to my mind much lesser) problems can arise where the main evidence against a suspect has been obtained by tapping a third party&#8217;s telephone.  If that intercept evidence is revealed to the suspect, the third party will soon know that his phone has been tapped &#8212; and this may reveal to a whole terrorist group that their activities are known to the authorities, causing them to change their plans, stop using their telephones, and so forth.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s fine to reassert the principle that an accused person has the absolute right to know the evidence against him and to be able to challenge it in court.  But how does one reconcile that principle with the equally absolute need to protect the identity of informers?  I simply don&#8217;t know.  I wonder if anyone else does, either.  The SIAC procedures are designed to enable sensitive evidence to be withheld from the suspect while ensuring that his interests can be protected as far as possible by the special advocate who can challenge the closed evidence on his behalf.  The SIAC judges themselves have to be satisfied that the evidence in question really does need to be &#8216;closed&#8217;, i.e. withheld from the suspect.  It&#8217;s not satisfactory.  But what alternative is better?</p>
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