Comments on: 83 Human Rights Groups Tell Congress, “Take Action on Torture!”

By: connie nash

connie nash — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 20:55:36 +0000

Well? How about get word out to all NYC contacts or come yourselves if close? Vigil/Program with Well-known actors tomorrow, Monday from 6-7 in front of Brooklyn detention center where Fahad is – 500 Pearl St. Manhatten = Be On Time…Fahad’s parents to be there and possibly some well-known reporters…tell your favorite new york reporters or write this up yourself…for more events in NYC this week, go to my blogsite: http://www.oneheartforpeace.blogspot.com Includes ANDY and Tina who broke a big story at Bagram then there’s more in Berkely next week by World Can’t Wait and Berkeley Law Center…

By: connie nash

connie nash — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 18:01:50 +0000

So what more/better is available to do?

By: Begum Akhtar, Cyril Almeida, Ayaz Amir, | Tea Break

Begum Akhtar, Cyril Almeida, Ayaz Amir, | Tea Break — Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:28:45 +0000

[...] Akhtar, Cyril Almeida, Ayaz Amir, October 30th, 2009 // 83 Human Rights Groups Tell Congress, “Take Action on Torture!” By Andy Worthington on Guantanamo campaigns – Today, 83 human rights groups and leaders sent the [...]

By: Andy Worthington

Andy Worthington — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:39:28 +0000

Thanks, TD. That, I think, is the most perceptive analysis I’ve seen of the dangers of believing that the “ticking time-bomb scenario” is real.

By: the talking dog

the talking dog — Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:13:50 +0000

It’s a nice sentiment and all, but torture is now entrenched… embedded in the system. Even in the case of Binyam Mohammed and others suing the Jeppeson subsidiary of Boeing over its role in the torture rendition flights, the 9th Circuit court of Appeals– of which Jay Bybee is a judge, no less, has agreed to re-hear the Gov’t's continued assertion of state secrets (Bybee recused himself!).

On torture, we have slowly watched the debate shift to the extraordinarily dangerous yet wholly irrelevant question of the “effectiveness” as if this somehow justified a practice that civilized people’s have had a consensus was unacceptable barbarity for centuries… of course, that’s also what we used to think about habeas corpus in American law, I suppose. But I guess we should take the ticking time-bomb scenario to its logical conclusion, as flip the scenario as, we captured “Mohammed…” We THINK… heck… we’re SURE… he knows where there is a nuclear bomb hidden in mid-town Manhattan, though he denies it and won’t tell us. So, we torture him, and he doesn’t relent. So we torture his six year old daughter in front of him– to death, btw. He still won’t talk. So, we know that Mohammed’s home town in the Middle East– home to 50,000 people or so– is where his wife, other children and extended family are– we threaten to incinerate the town (after all, 50,000 people are a lot less than the millions to be killed in New York, right?) Still nothing… so we incinerate the town… DO. YOU. SEE. WHERE. THIS. IS. GOING?

Finally, Mohammed makes a full confession, after which legions of FBI, CIA and Mossad agents are dispatched… and of course… find nothing… (because torture isn’t really “effective” and the “ticking bomb” scenario is wholly imaginary… but details…)

Murder and genocide have ALSO been recognized as intolerable and barbarous acts never to be tolerated…

But, you see, if we make “the stakes high enough” justification argument… then surely torture (or murdering a child, or incinerating a city…) IS JUSTIFIED, right? Never. EVER.

Just saying.

Best of luck to the anti-torture campaigners; we must all just beware that the ground seems to be shifting underneath our collective feet.