<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Guantánamo Envoy: US Should Have Taken Cleared Prisoners; Some Should Never Have Been Held</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/</link>
	<description>Author &#38; journalist</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 17:47:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.3</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Rubbing Salt in Guantanamo&#8217;s Wounds: Task Force Announces Indefinite Detentions &#124; themcglynn.com/theliberal.net</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-54484</link>
		<dc:creator>Rubbing Salt in Guantanamo&#8217;s Wounds: Task Force Announces Indefinite Detentions &#124; themcglynn.com/theliberal.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 03:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-54484</guid>
		<description>[...] have been cleared for release,&#8221; experiences this year have indicated that other countries are reluctant to provide new homes for these men when the United States has washed its hands of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have been cleared for release,&#8221; experiences this year have indicated that other countries are reluctant to provide new homes for these men when the United States has washed its hands of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Obama’s Failure on Guantanamo</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-53860</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama’s Failure on Guantanamo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:10:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-53860</guid>
		<description>[...] a law preventing any cleared prisoner being re-housed in the United States), but also made it difficult for America’s allies in Europe to take any of the dozens of cleared men — from Algeria, Libya, Syria, Tunisia and Uzbekistan, as [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a law preventing any cleared prisoner being re-housed in the United States), but also made it difficult for America’s allies in Europe to take any of the dozens of cleared men — from Algeria, Libya, Syria, Tunisia and Uzbekistan, as [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Will The Maldives Take Three Guantánamo Prisoners? &#171; freedetainees.org</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-52787</link>
		<dc:creator>Will The Maldives Take Three Guantánamo Prisoners? &#171; freedetainees.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Dec 2009 22:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-52787</guid>
		<description>[...] news, the US Embassy in Sofia told AFP on Friday that “US Special Envoy for Guantánamo Closure Daniel Fried visited Bulgaria from December 2-3 and met with Bulgarian officials,” who have been asked to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] news, the US Embassy in Sofia told AFP on Friday that “US Special Envoy for Guantánamo Closure Daniel Fried visited Bulgaria from December 2-3 and met with Bulgarian officials,” who have been asked to [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Finding New Homes For 44 Cleared Guantánamo Prisoners by Andy Worthington &#171; Dandelion Salad</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-50574</link>
		<dc:creator>Finding New Homes For 44 Cleared Guantánamo Prisoners by Andy Worthington &#171; Dandelion Salad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:46:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-50574</guid>
		<description>[...] the United States (which fuels a reluctance to help in European countries, as Fried acknowledged in a recent interview with the BBC), there are disturbing signs that this reticence on the part of the administration to state openly [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the United States (which fuels a reluctance to help in European countries, as Fried acknowledged in a recent interview with the BBC), there are disturbing signs that this reticence on the part of the administration to state openly [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Guantánamo Envoy: US Should Have Taken Cleared Prisoners; Some &#8230; &#124; Job Fair News</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-49614</link>
		<dc:creator>Guantánamo Envoy: US Should Have Taken Cleared Prisoners; Some &#8230; &#124; Job Fair News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 01:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-49614</guid>
		<description>[...] the rest here:  Guantánamo Envoy: US Should Have Taken Cleared Prisoners; Some &#8230;   Share and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the rest here:  Guantánamo Envoy: US Should Have Taken Cleared Prisoners; Some &#8230;   Share and [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-49549</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-49549</guid>
		<description>And jlocke123 wrote:

-&quot;Some really are awful. Some qualify as &quot;the worst of the worst,&quot;

&quot;worst of the worst&quot;? Where have we heard that before? Can Obama point to any convictions, of these prisoners, in REAL courts? No. Outside America, we have a saying: &quot;innocent until proven guilty&quot;. But of course a &quot;constitutional law professor&quot; should know that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And jlocke123 wrote:</p>
<p>-&#8221;Some really are awful. Some qualify as &#8220;the worst of the worst,&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;worst of the worst&#8221;? Where have we heard that before? Can Obama point to any convictions, of these prisoners, in REAL courts? No. Outside America, we have a saying: &#8220;innocent until proven guilty&#8221;. But of course a &#8220;constitutional law professor&#8221; should know that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-49548</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 22:00:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-49548</guid>
		<description>rfloh wrote:

Indeed. The issue of detention without trial goes to the very heart of concepts of liberty and human rights.

The concept of liberty loses any meaning if detention without trial is acceptable. There can be no liberty if some authority can just decide to throw someone in a gulag arbitrarily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rfloh wrote:</p>
<p>Indeed. The issue of detention without trial goes to the very heart of concepts of liberty and human rights.</p>
<p>The concept of liberty loses any meaning if detention without trial is acceptable. There can be no liberty if some authority can just decide to throw someone in a gulag arbitrarily.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-49547</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Sep 2009 21:59:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-49547</guid>
		<description>Over on Common Dreams, Bill from Saginaw wrote:

&quot;It&#039;s not like we&#039;re advancing liberty or making peace,&quot; according to Mr. Fried, the man in charge of the &quot;miserable&quot; task of &quot;cleaning up a problem&quot; inherited from the Bush administration, by releasing or relocating hundreds of Muslim detainees swept up with great fanfare during the neocons&#039; seven-year global war on terror -- all so that the infamous US military/CIA interrogation facility at Guantanamo can be closed.

I beg to differ. This is very much about advancing liberty and making peace.

If the folks in charge of carrying out this simple campaign promise of President Obama don&#039;t recognize the significance of restoring respect for the rule of law and international human rights guarantees, this mindset is a big part of the problem now needlessly befuddling the DC beltway Democratic leadership.

It was neocon true believers like former vice president Dick Cheney and Senator Pat Roberts who created the Gitmo/Abu Ghraib black site gulag, largely for ideological hype and domestic partisan gain. Now, the same spinmeisters seek to Willie Horton themselves out of accountability for potential escapee/boogeyman blowback which may (or may not) loom ominously on the horizon.

If the DLC can&#039;t figure out how to counter this fear mongering shell game, then it&#039;s time for the White House to change not only tacticians, but also the whole frame of reference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over on Common Dreams, Bill from Saginaw wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s not like we&#8217;re advancing liberty or making peace,&#8221; according to Mr. Fried, the man in charge of the &#8220;miserable&#8221; task of &#8220;cleaning up a problem&#8221; inherited from the Bush administration, by releasing or relocating hundreds of Muslim detainees swept up with great fanfare during the neocons&#8217; seven-year global war on terror &#8212; all so that the infamous US military/CIA interrogation facility at Guantanamo can be closed.</p>
<p>I beg to differ. This is very much about advancing liberty and making peace.</p>
<p>If the folks in charge of carrying out this simple campaign promise of President Obama don&#8217;t recognize the significance of restoring respect for the rule of law and international human rights guarantees, this mindset is a big part of the problem now needlessly befuddling the DC beltway Democratic leadership.</p>
<p>It was neocon true believers like former vice president Dick Cheney and Senator Pat Roberts who created the Gitmo/Abu Ghraib black site gulag, largely for ideological hype and domestic partisan gain. Now, the same spinmeisters seek to Willie Horton themselves out of accountability for potential escapee/boogeyman blowback which may (or may not) loom ominously on the horizon.</p>
<p>If the DLC can&#8217;t figure out how to counter this fear mongering shell game, then it&#8217;s time for the White House to change not only tacticians, but also the whole frame of reference.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Andy Worthington</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-49434</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Worthington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 21:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-49434</guid>
		<description>And I couldn&#039;t help thinking, while reading that, TD, that &quot;we&quot; have &quot;saved&quot; countless Iraqis and Afghans from terrorism and tyranny -- by killing them with our bombs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I couldn&#8217;t help thinking, while reading that, TD, that &#8220;we&#8221; have &#8220;saved&#8221; countless Iraqis and Afghans from terrorism and tyranny &#8212; by killing them with our bombs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: the talking dog</title>
		<link>http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/09/17/guantanamo-envoy-us-should-have-taken-cleared-prisoners-some-should-never-have-been-held/comment-page-1/#comment-49433</link>
		<dc:creator>the talking dog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 20:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/?p=5476#comment-49433</guid>
		<description>My, my.  First, Ambassador Fried is indeed, in an unenviable position, thanks to the Obama Administration&#039;s political cowardice and fecklessness in the early days, when it dithered on this instead of just taking charge.  The Obama Administration could have literally released the Uighurs per Judge Urbina&#039;s court order and been done with it, and then moved the entire operation to American soil (say, a brig or stockade somewhere) and &quot;game over, GTMO closed&quot; before anyone can say &quot;boo&quot;.  But then, it didn&#039;t, and the rest is... history, or at least where we are now.

As to torture, I&#039;d really never even get started on the &quot;is it effective&quot; argument; the fact that no one can point to an actual &quot;ticking time bomb scenario&quot; in non-fiction circumstances is neither here nor there; the instant one does, immediately, we will be told by torture-advocates (amateurs all, btw, as no professional interrogator would ever want to go near torture) the &quot;moral calculus&quot; suddenly changes... and my point is &quot;THE HELL IT DOES.&quot;

Civilization has agreed on very, very few things, but two of them are that torture and genocide are ALWAYS WRONG.  ALWAYS.  No exceptions, just because the Fox network runs a show where in its fictional context torture is effective (oh hell, man, its FREAKING AWESOME!  WOLVERINES!) Wait...  where was I... oh yes...

Just replace the word &quot;torture&quot; with &quot;genocide&quot;...  such as &quot;We must reserve the right to engage in ____  in certain circumstances where the lives of thousands might be on the line if we don&#039;t get immediate information.&quot;  Well, I respectfully submit that genocide has proven much more effective than torture ever has in achieving political goals...  we can point to  the case of the Syrian massacre of the town of Hama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre)  which effectively ended much internal terrorism inside of Syria... sure, between 7,000 and 40,000 people were killed, but then &quot;thousands more were saved&quot; from &quot;the ravages of terrorism.&quot;  

See how easy it is?  I mean, there are those who advocate dropping nuclear bombs on the Middle East (somehow not vaporizing Israel in the process... see above re &quot;amateurs&quot;).... I assure you, such wholesale homicide (like that at Hama) would doubtless be far more effective at stamping out terrorism than &quot;torture&quot; ever would be... and yet, somehow, we at least for the moment, still acknowledge that such tactics are &quot;wrong&quot; (well, many of us do, anyway).

I&#039;m kind of tired of the premise that legal (and moral) restraints on conduct are somehow &quot;quaint&quot; or &quot;obsolete&quot; simply because laws and practices that are longstanding military doctrine have proven &lt;i&gt;inconvenient policy&lt;/i&gt; to the former Bush Administration amateurs... the laws were just fine; it was just that administering them was put into the hands of criminals, criminals whose handiwork Ambassador Fried finds himself stuck with, and criminals whose successor is more inclined to emulate than to investigate.  

This would all be hilariously funny... if any of it were funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My, my.  First, Ambassador Fried is indeed, in an unenviable position, thanks to the Obama Administration&#8217;s political cowardice and fecklessness in the early days, when it dithered on this instead of just taking charge.  The Obama Administration could have literally released the Uighurs per Judge Urbina&#8217;s court order and been done with it, and then moved the entire operation to American soil (say, a brig or stockade somewhere) and &#8220;game over, GTMO closed&#8221; before anyone can say &#8220;boo&#8221;.  But then, it didn&#8217;t, and the rest is&#8230; history, or at least where we are now.</p>
<p>As to torture, I&#8217;d really never even get started on the &#8220;is it effective&#8221; argument; the fact that no one can point to an actual &#8220;ticking time bomb scenario&#8221; in non-fiction circumstances is neither here nor there; the instant one does, immediately, we will be told by torture-advocates (amateurs all, btw, as no professional interrogator would ever want to go near torture) the &#8220;moral calculus&#8221; suddenly changes&#8230; and my point is &#8220;THE HELL IT DOES.&#8221;</p>
<p>Civilization has agreed on very, very few things, but two of them are that torture and genocide are ALWAYS WRONG.  ALWAYS.  No exceptions, just because the Fox network runs a show where in its fictional context torture is effective (oh hell, man, its FREAKING AWESOME!  WOLVERINES!) Wait&#8230;  where was I&#8230; oh yes&#8230;</p>
<p>Just replace the word &#8220;torture&#8221; with &#8220;genocide&#8221;&#8230;  such as &#8220;We must reserve the right to engage in ____  in certain circumstances where the lives of thousands might be on the line if we don&#8217;t get immediate information.&#8221;  Well, I respectfully submit that genocide has proven much more effective than torture ever has in achieving political goals&#8230;  we can point to  the case of the Syrian massacre of the town of Hama (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre?referer=');">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre</a>)  which effectively ended much internal terrorism inside of Syria&#8230; sure, between 7,000 and 40,000 people were killed, but then &#8220;thousands more were saved&#8221; from &#8220;the ravages of terrorism.&#8221;  </p>
<p>See how easy it is?  I mean, there are those who advocate dropping nuclear bombs on the Middle East (somehow not vaporizing Israel in the process&#8230; see above re &#8220;amateurs&#8221;)&#8230;. I assure you, such wholesale homicide (like that at Hama) would doubtless be far more effective at stamping out terrorism than &#8220;torture&#8221; ever would be&#8230; and yet, somehow, we at least for the moment, still acknowledge that such tactics are &#8220;wrong&#8221; (well, many of us do, anyway).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m kind of tired of the premise that legal (and moral) restraints on conduct are somehow &#8220;quaint&#8221; or &#8220;obsolete&#8221; simply because laws and practices that are longstanding military doctrine have proven <i>inconvenient policy</i> to the former Bush Administration amateurs&#8230; the laws were just fine; it was just that administering them was put into the hands of criminals, criminals whose handiwork Ambassador Fried finds himself stuck with, and criminals whose successor is more inclined to emulate than to investigate.  </p>
<p>This would all be hilariously funny&#8230; if any of it were funny.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
